I have a few

[SpiritFire]

Questions, that is.

But I will start with this.

I work with a lady who is highly negative. At least I think she is. It could be my health or the amount of work I do.

And by negative, I don't mean that she talks bad all the time. She is highly motivated and very goal driven. I mean that her energy gets to me a lot. I have read that staying present will help with this, and im sure I will get to a place where presence is a natural state. But right now im not there quite yet. Im not defining this in terms of "the future" either. I just need some suggestions as to how to handle this. I am just So. Tired. all the time. And I only really noticed this after I had my first real Awakening.

I guess i'm open to all suggestions or advice or....opinions. I just need help because I (for the first time in all my life) am genuienly happy with life. I love what I do and I love the people I work with. And i'm not so attached to all that that I can't move on if I need to. I really don't think I would be unhappy anywhere I went. My happiness is on the inside, not defined by any outside input. But I don't quite know what to do with all this energy. I guess if I was to be honest, it's a form of resistance. Or judgement. Or something.

Thank you,
SF

[scarface]

I just need help because I (for the first time in all my life) am genuienly happy with life. I love what I do and I love the people I work with. And i'm not so attached to all that that I can't move on if I need to. I really don't think I would be unhappy anywhere I went. My happiness is on the inside, not defined by any outside input.

That is nice to hear. I always find it nice to hear when it has happened that someone has come to point where they can say that they are gratefull and happy with life, due to inside understandings.

I work with a lady who is highly negative. At least I think she is. It could be my health or the amount of work I do.

I mean that her energy gets to me a lot.

Is this a person that is energy draining, to you? Do others also feel drained afterwards, haing to work with her?

What my current position, is about energy draining and negative people. My experience is that people, or the outside does affect myself (aka my bodily energy). Someone says something negative about me, and an emotion will come up in my body most times and alter the energy of my body. Whatever it is, negative or postive.
So imo the outside does cause reactions inside, ime that's just a fact. I have never aimed nor see it being possible that the outside will not affect the inside (positive or negative doesn't matter imo).

The best way I have found to "deal" with draining people. When I am in a state of compassion and understanding, I usually handle it best for all people involved. I wonder, why have they become dependant upon external attention/apprication/importance or fell insignificant? Were they put down a lot in life by there parents? or ridiculed a lot at school? Understanding where someone comes from, usually brings compassion which imo is usually the best postion to come from when "dealing' with people.

Usually draining people, want to feel (ego) important, appriciated and recognized. Therefore they use different ways/methods to get that, which are often draining ones.
What I usually do is give people appriciation on there good points, it like happens naturally for me often. Draining people usually crave this most, and whence it is given naturally to them they usually become easier to deal with. Often draining people gain there importance by becomeing competative with others and trying to win, while when I give them appriciation and they thefore feel important they quite a number of times want to gain their importance by being a good/helpfull collegue/friend/person.

I'm not sure if what I stated was relevant, but I couldn't clearly get from your post what the precise "issue" was. Hope it accidentally might help some thopugh.

scarface.

[SpiritFire]

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the draining aspect of it. I really feel tired after being with her and there are times where I just feel I need to be by myself and regroup.

I tell her I appreciate her and her abilities a lot. But it comes out of honesty and not ego flattery. Since awakening, I can't quite tell if ego flattery has any place in showing enlightenment thru example. To me, it seems it would just entrench ego more. It's like giving into a 2 year olds tantrum, imo.

I'm not at the point where being present is my natural state (although, really, it is my natural state I just forget). But I will work more with compassion and see where that goes.

Thank you,
Heather

[scarface]

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the draining aspect of it. I really feel tired after being with her and there are times where I just feel I need to be by myself and regroup.

I agree, it's a fact of life that there are: uplifting, neutral and draining people. We al have to "learn" to life with that and accept it is so, imo.

I tell her I appreciate her and her abilities a lot. But it comes out of honesty and not ego flattery.

Awesome that you notice and know the difference between the (honest) appriciation and the (often incincerity) of flattery.

Since awakening, I can't quite tell if ego flattery has any place in showing enlightenment thru example. To me, it seems it would just entrench ego more. It's like giving into a 2 year olds tantrum, imo.

I agree that flatter and (honest) appriciation as well, almost always biggens the ego for either part involved. It at least plays on the ego, imo.
Flattery for sure is playing on the ego of an other to try to get the other to do/feel/think a certain way. Appriciation is usually also an ego thing, imo. The exception is though (as I see it) is that appriciation is not designed to try to get the other to do/feel/think a certain way. But just a sharing that you observed a great quality in the other, without any added alteriour motive(s).

Though If you want to show people enlightenment, through showing that you will not let ego play any part (as you expressed). I think the assesment that both have to go then, is a true one.
To add my own unasked view about it. Enlightenment and ego to me means that you see that the ego is merely a mind created "thing" that in reality doesn't exist neither in an objective nor subjective way, and therefore also has no authority, free will, real existance, yet it is felt and there "existing" in an non-objective and non-subjective sense. Knowing that, playing around with something like this (ego), you would see it can do no harm nor good (for yourself).

I'm not at the point where being present is my natural state (although, really, it is my natural state I just forget).

What does being present mean, to you? I don't entirely get the term used.
Do you mean just being, without any thoughts, emtions or feelings distorting the presense energy in the body? (to add my (unsolisited opinion about that, ime can't be done unless you are sitting alone in a room withput any external distractions, but when external things appear an reaction in naturally to appear in the form of an thought, feeling or emtion imo.)

But I will work more with compassion and see where that goes.

I hope it will do the trick, to the extent you want relieve from this.

Goodbye an luck.

[SpiritFire]

What does being present mean, to you? I don't entirely get the term used.
Do you mean just being, without any thoughts, emtions or feelings distorting the presense energy in the body? (to add my (unsolisited opinion about that, ime can't be done unless you are sitting alone in a room withput any external distractions, but when external things appear an reaction in naturally to appear in the form of an thought, feeling or emtion imo.)

This, to me, means being aware. Awareness=Presence. Of course being without thoughts and emotions or feelings would be bliss. And I'm not sure even if that is the goal here. Learning to surrender to every aspect, whether it would be termed "good" or "bad" by the ego is where I am headed right now. For example, if I get really angry about something, then it becomes my task at that moment (or a moment there after if I forget) to become aware of the anger. I don't have to act on it. It is insubstancial. But can I just be with the emotion and whatever corresponding body condition it evokes? When I am aware of it, it will then lesson the grip of it on my automatic response. By being in a state of Presence, my doing will be more authentic than if I just react from an egoic mind state.

And keep in mind. I lived my life entrenched for a long time in ego. So at this point some of it is habitual. But I keep making that decision to come back to the Now. Where this kind of stuff causes no suffering because it doesn't exist in the Now. So when I give the example, this is 1. How i'm training myself to be because 2. I've experienced the benefits of such action first hand.

Though If you want to show people enlightenment, through showing that you will not let ego play any part (as you expressed). I think the assesment that both have to go then, is a true one.
To add my own unasked view about it. Enlightenment and ego to me means that you see that the ego is merely a mind created "thing" that in reality doesn't exist neither in an objective nor subjective way, and therefore also has no authority, free will, real existance, yet it is felt and there "existing" in an non-objective and non-subjective sense. Knowing that, playing around with something like this (ego), you would see it can do no harm nor good (for yourself).

Some of this I can't quite understand, and that's ok. But I will definite meditate upon it.

Thank you.

[SpiritFire]

I think I may have almost had an aha! moment there.

I get (and maybe only intellectually) that ego is a mind created thing. And (i think I might get a little lost here) being so has no basis in reality. I guess this is where my mind goes with this.

If ego is in fact non-existent, how do we as humans create so much hell on earth. I was suicidal nearly everyday for over 20 years. Once I became aware of who I truly was, life it's self, I can't even imagine trying to kill myself. But when I was seeing my reality through betrayal, pain, anger and fear, all of that was very "real" to me.

This is one of those paradoxes, huh? The kind where it almost makes sense, but just that last little bit makes it all hard to understand?

In this particular instance, I see how this lady's ego makes her life Hell on Earth. But I also see how even as short as 6 months ago, this was me. I see how her unconsciousness creates and fuels her own pain and suffering. But if the ego is not real, where then does the "realness" lie? And how do we come to see the illusion for what it truly is?

Maybe the answer to that is to be intensely Present.

[scarface]

I like to try to make my position clear and explain what I meant , maybe it can create some clarity for you. It is merely my own view of it, which I came to by an intuitive feeling it being so combined with a logical concept as well.

When I replied, I used terms like mind, ego and brain while not paying attention to which definition of them I was using. These words are used in so many ways and mean different things depending on the context and intention of the one writing it.
As I read my previous post I noticed how used the word “mind” when what I meant was “brain”, according to the definitions I will use now.
Ego Definition I use in the following context: The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
Mind definition I use in the following context: Consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested especially in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination.
Brain definition I use in the following context: The matter/object under the skull.

function of the brain
So to me combining the above, makes it like this. With brain there can be mind and ego. Objects that have no brain, don’t have mind and ego. So a brain has to be there, to create ego.
Therefore I stated:

the ego is merely a mind created "thing"

What I meant was actually: “The ego is merely a brain created “thing”.
So if the brain “created” it.
Now lets take a look at what the brain primarily does, and if it is capable of creating things.
Science has shown that brain “makes” objects through deleting and discriminating empty spaces from other empty spaces. Through which it creates the illusion of objects existing, and existing as separated from each other. For instance, when I touch something I am not touching anything, the brain merely projects that I do and ooh does it feel real.
Now as I see it. My brain paints a picture, and this picture is not the reality. The brain is designed to create this illusion and not the reality of how it is.

Now what happened when I used my brain to find out how things are in reality?
All my brain knows is separate and separated things, and therefore it started searching along those lines.
Question like you asked, I also asked:

If ego is in fact non-existent, how do we as humans create so much hell on earth.
This is one of those paradoxes, huh?
But if the ego is not real, where then does the "realness" lie?
And how do we come to see the illusion for what it truly is?

The brain created all illusions, as I saw it. It created the illusion of separate objects, the illusion of an ego, the illusion of an day dream (which sometimes can feel as real as if it had happened for real).

To dig into the brain creating the ego. People not looking further in to it, look with the brain at the ego as if it is an separate thing. And the brain only knows and things along lines of separate things/objects.
what did I find when I looked at ego with my brain, while simultaneously accepting the brain while automatically judge it as an objective (separate) something? I found nothing, there. I looked and didn’t find an object, and I honestly couldn’t add any attributes to ego. I couldn’t give the ego any attributes like: free will, power, male, kind, compassionate, violent, etc.. Yet I can’t deny I notice ego being there. Therefore I came to the conclusion it is something that has no substance and no attributes. Now something that has no substance or attributes, I can’t say it’s something that exists. And yet in a sense it does, only in a brain made sense it does. I like to use the metaphor of the daydream. The brain can create a day dream that seems as real as can be, and cause you to feel anger for instance. Yet when you stop the day dream, can you say it existed? Can you say it had any substance? Can you point at it and say there it is? No. But in a way the day dream did exist, only in brain sense it did exist.

And now I wanted to use this brain that created the illusions, to find and bring me to the place before brain was there? It’s not designed to do so, but designed more to do the opposite imo. So I came to the conclusion for myself that the brain that created the illusion, can not bring me out of it.

To tell my view to those questions of yours, according to how I view it is.

If ego is in fact non-existent, how do we as humans create so much hell on earth.

This questions implies some things. I don’t know how to answer it, nor what the precise problem is. My experience is that the creation of much hell on earth, is not a problem. How it is created? We all can see the examples in our lives and on the news. My preference would be that there would be less pain and especially less (mental) unhappiness, but that is just my preference. No pain and mental unhappiness on this earth I would consider to be highly undesirable. Since I would consider my life with only pleasurable experiences ,no pain and no mental unhappiness; to be a dull life and probably leading to an total undervaluing and appreciation of the pleasurable experiences.

This is one of those paradoxes, huh?

Yes, for the brain it’s a paradox. Meaning the brain can’t get it. Why not imo? The brain is that which created the problem, and now coming at a point where it ends up at itself.

But if the ego is not real, where then does the "realness" lie?

The ego is not real in the sense that my opinion is that is has no substance and no attributes, how can you say something exists that has no substance nor attributes? Yet we all feel it being there. Imo, it’s realness lies in the illusions that are created by the brain. Like to use the metaphor: “where does the realness of the daydream lie?”, when my brain creates it, it somehow exists for me. But can I say is exists?

And how do we come to see the illusion for what it truly is?

Imo, “How” questions can only be answered by the brain. And this is something where that which needs to answer it, is that which is the problem and created the illusion. Imo, it’s beyond the brain, and I think it therefore should be treated like this. Therefore imo there is no how, nothing that can be done to see it. The only thing I would advice, is do use the brain in trying to create an as healthy as possible brain, mind and ego. Which can be done imo through: relativization, looking within, being understanding and compassionate towards oneself and others, looking beyond the swift judgements of the mind, trying to be self and outward honesty, etc.. I think such a brain that is programmed like this statistically higher probable to receive the intuitive understanding to see the illusion, yet it can happen to anyone also the ones with an psychopathic brain imo.

I Hope I explained my position understandable, I tried to do it as best as possible. What I stated here is my experience of it, and I hope it can help some in their way of experiencing positively.
Bye scarface.

[SpiritFire]

Thank you, scarface.

I will think on it and see what conclusions I draw.

[scarface]

Thank you, scarface.

I will think on it and see what conclusions I draw.

You're welcome. And I agree, that people better draw their own conclusions, because as in my case those are the ones that caused changes and stayed with me.

[Lee]

SpiritFire wrote-

In this particular instance, I see how this lady's ego makes her life Hell on Earth. But I also see how even as short as 6 months ago, this was me. I see how her unconsciousness creates and fuels her own pain and suffering. But if the ego is not real, where then does the "realness" lie? And how do we come to see the illusion for what it truly is?

Maybe the answer to that is to be intensely Present.

Bravo

"I see how her unconsciousness creates and fuels her own pain and suffering."

Yes. And also- unconsciousness creates and fuels pain and suffering. This is the human condition. No responsibility here. No possession- “her, her own”.