Exploring the notion "Jesus Died for our Sins"

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Exploring the notion "Jesus Died for our Sins"

Postby Ariel » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:59 pm

Use this thread to discuss the following blog post:

Exploring the notion "Jesus Died for our Sins"
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby SpiritFire » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:36 pm

Im sorry. I just have to.

That was Awesome.
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby jeffusu » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:48 am

From my understanding, this bit is a little off:
it seems that the idea was that basically the God of the Bible wanted to wipe out all of humanity as a result of them being such sinners. I’m not sure who thought up this plan, but Jesus came down to take the karmic burden upon himself.


The "God" in the old testament wanted to wipe out the people of the earth because of their evilness which was why he sent the flood and that whole thing with Noah and the arc. Again doesn't sound like a very loving God to me, and again you have to recognize that the Bible was collected by people who obviously weren't Jesus, so yeah that whole thing doesn't jive with me. That whole people are evil and need to be destroyed thing is all Old Testament. God of fear, jealousy, hate, envy, that sort of stuff.

The New Testament is about the God of Love. As far as Jesus coming down to "take away our sins" and "save" us, my current understanding isn't so much that we can just go out and sin and we aren't responsible anymore or anything like that. It's almost like, the mere fact that a fully realized being was here on earth, that the energy field left is so magnetic, that eventually no matter what, we have to be drawn back to it. That is what has "saved" us. As we are drawn to realizing that field for ourselves, our "sins" are automatically taken care of. Something like that.
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby Ariel » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:07 am

It's interesting that the old testament God and the new testament God are so different. I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing that up Jeff.

jeffusu wrote:It's almost like, the mere fact that a fully realized being was here on earth, that the energy field left is so magnetic, that eventually no matter what, we have to be drawn back to it. That is what has "saved" us. As we are drawn to realizing that field for ourselves, our "sins" are automatically taken care of. Something like that.


That's actually pretty cool. :)
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby CaterpillarWoman » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:02 am

After considerable Bible study (and I mean really in-depth stuff) and many years of spiritual journeying, I'm of the opinion that "sin" is not at all about "doing bad things". I believe it refers directly to being attached to material things. The Apostle Paul used the phrase "the flesh" to mean "the material world", but that got corrupted into a bunch of weird stuff about denying yourself certain kinds of physical pleasures (foods, sex, etc. etc.). I believe, however, that Paul was writing about the difference between the spiritual and the material. The word "sin" comes from a root word that essentially means "missing the mark" (apparently, it's an archery term). When you "sin", you're directing your attention to things material and the material world (that which the Hindus call "maya"), and not directing your attention where it should be, which is on The Source of Everything (God, if you prefer).

That's my studied opinion, anyway. I know there are plenty of dogmatists who would happily condemn me to hell for daring to hold such opinions, but I don't believe in hell, anyway, so what do I care? ;)
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby Roger » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:45 am

I think of sin even more vaguely... anything that is down-pulling or lowers consciousness or lowers our vibration. It could be a thought, word or action. It could be a material attachment or an attachment to an identity or emotional state. It could be anything. That being said the other half of infinity is uplifting, raises our consciousness and our vibe... so nothing to worry about :dancing
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby Marko » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:28 pm

I don't believe in original sin but I do believe in "Original Blessing!"

Perhaps Jesus did not die on the cross for us, instead he "lived" on the cross for us.

Jesus knew men were not ready to acknowledge their own divinity so used him self to make it easier to accept it through him.

To say the only way to salvation is through believing and accepting Jesus as our savior is a rather limited elementary spiritual concept.

Christianity has much too offer and going for it than many realize. The biggest change and challenge Christianity will go through is realizing that we need not go though any individual (except ourselves) to get our salvation or enlightenment or whatever one thinks one needs.

The rigid belief that we do need Jesus holds back the dam of goodness Christianity has to offer, (but is lost among rigidity of doctrine) along with all the other spiritual schools of thought.

If you don't think new age metaphysical thought doesn't have rigidity as deep as some Christians, think again. I have a term I coined for them I call them "Metaphysical fundamentalists."

There is so much difference of opinion, interpretation of the Bible, Jesus and the many branches of Christianity as to seem silly to even try and debate it.
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby deeprivernz » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:31 pm

Ariel, for me you summed up the Bigger Picture nicely with:-
"Here we are in this day and age. Now what?"
Here in New Zealand, the maori culture all revolves around the past - as does the bible and most religious texts. Personally I find this rather frustrating as it makes it hard to go forward if everything always has to be referred to the past. My reality is NOW, this moment. Sure everything that has gone before has all contributed to the 'now' which I experience. Growing up in a christian family obviously affects Who I Am now but it doesn't have to rule me! Why restrain My Self by the preachings of someone else? (Yes, I know - I can also widen My Self by listening/reading the preachings of others too!)
I really liked the broadness of the christian picture put forward by Marko. It reminds me of Scott Peck's 4 stages of spiritual development. He said that there are stage 2 christians and stage 4 christians who may well both attend the same church. The stage 2s are totally hooked into "Jesus will save us" whereas the stage 4s can see the Bigger Picture as described by Marko.
My own personal questioning of ALL religions comes back to - why does every religion (or, indeed most people) believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong? Of course, every person IS right - for themselves - but why assume that it should apply to everyone else as well?
So - "Did Jesus die for our sins" is a completely irrelevant question for me!
But I did enjoy your response, Ariel, plus everyone else's for that matter.
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby Roger » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:32 pm

After reading the post about the Old and New Testament Gods... I just had this realization that even the Christian God is evolving!! :D Maybe we're more similar than we realized :rolleyes
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Re: Exploring the notion

Postby Ariel » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:15 am

Oh man, you guys gotta check this out... It's a story about a guy who goes to Ramana feeling like an incredible sinner and doesn't know what to do. Ramana actually pulls a Jesus here... :)

http://luthar.com/surrender-and-salvati ... rishnayya/
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