Every forum has an awkward one

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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Lee » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:53 am

Lee wrote: Are you comparing yourself to Nisargadatta?


Max wrote- There is no comparison....we are the same thing, one.


Last night it was raining and one of my six month old kittens brought in a small snake. I am a big fan of reptiles and all animals. The smake was curled up, wet and cold. Which was good, as he could not move much and therefore might not be injured.

I held him and examined him to see if he was alright. He was, and he was wonderful. The feel of him was wonderful. I then put him in a container with some cloths, and he hid underneath them.

The rain was pouring down, and I was going to wait until it passed to put the snake outside again.

An hour later I put on my boots, took the container with the snake, and with flashlight in hand I went out into the woods. (Both a possum and a coon ran off with my walking.)

I walked far away from the house, and deep into the woods where I found a perfect spot for snake. When I opened the lid, the snake had warmed up and was very active. This made me very happy. I then let him out of the container and he swiftly moved under the leaves and under a fallen branch. I walked back into the house smiling.

Between cats and a nearby road, many snakes and reptiles do not fare as well as this one did. Snakes are snakes, basically the same, but their fate is very different. Only a few are saved. Only a few are held with hands of love for them. Only a few live and die with having had a human heart care for them.

Humans are the same- one- but only a few will realize this oneness. Not just a truth or concept in the mind- but realize.

There are very few human Beings on the planet. Mostly there are human doings and human thinkers or actors. Human Beings are divine. The Being in the human is God. And is not fleeting, but is eternal. This Being or consciousness is that which was never born or never dies. It is always Now.

The human form, all form, is fleeting. And this is not to be worshipped. But that which is within all form, the essence, the Being, the consciousness- this is that which is eternal. There is an expression that says, “don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.”

And even form is precious- when one can see the formlessness in the form, the form is peace and love and goodness.

As long as the human being remains , then it's a fleeting state and I consider it's egoic to claim to be self realized and/or free of ego.


As long as the human is identified with thought, with the small self, then it is egoic.

It is not egoic to claim to be self realized and free of the ego- if one is.

But if one is, it is not a claim. It is the Truth.

It is rare- true- but does happen. And happening more and more. Consciousness is emerging, accelerating.

As long as the human being remains , then it's a fleeting state and I consider it's egoic to claim to be self realized and/or free of ego.


This statement is “Gavel down”- No room for anything else but life without parole- life without Liberation.

What I see is that this statement is not made by the Being in you, but by the egoic mind in you. That this very statement is made by your ego. And now this ego never has to dissolve, as it rests on the belief- “it is egoic to claim to be self realized/free of the ego.” This statement reads as if there is no such thing as true Self realization/ or free of the ego- meaning death of the ego. Who profits by this- not God.

Of course one believes what they believe- but I know that this is not true. Self Realization happens and death of the ego happens and awareness of awareness happens- and consciousness becomes conscious of itself- and this never leaves- unlike a temporary experience.

Yes, there are many who deceive themselves or others into thinking they are Realized when they are not. And spiritual discernment is for this. It is easy to spot the fakers. It is also easy to spot the Real.

As long as the human being remains , then it's a fleeting state and I consider it's egoic to claim to be self realized and/or free of ego.


At least open the door to “Self realization/ free of ego is possible.”

After all, if you just look it- the statement is only an idea. And it’s inaccurate. To say, there are egos who claim they are self realized- that is true. To say- human “beings’ are fleeting and I consider it egoic to claim to be self realized-free of ego”- is presumptuous and untrue- an opinion- but one that is devastating- especially for one who is into true spirituality.

You can be at peace and in a state of awareness and observation, but not all the time....that would defeat the purpose, imo


What purpose would it defeat?

It is not enough to be at peace and in a state of awareness and observation- though this is a great place to be that few ever enter.

Awareness itself becomes Aware of Itself- this is way beyond the person or personal. This is very Real, Very Alive, It is Energy, It Is Space- Nothingness recognizing itself and it very much Felt.

The depth of who you are is deeper than where you are. The price is the ego- which fights this, resists this. Comes up with ideas that protect itself.

The separation is created by the desire to know yourself. Truly you can't know what you are, until you know what you're not.


The separation is created by the desire to know yourself.


This is the one desire that is pure, true and a step to knowing who you are.

If this desire- this seeking- itself is the desired, and not the finding, then it is egoic. “Seek but don’t find”. But if the desire is a means to finding- then it is a divine desire.

The separation is caused by the illusion that one is separate from the Source, from God. It’s purpose Is knowing what you are not. This entire dream is that which we are not. Duality is that which we are not. God is like the color Blue- and that is who we are. But if all is Blue God cannot recognize or know itself. Thus the dream and all the colors of the rainbow- contrast. And getting lost in all those colors and the dream itself. Must get lost to be found.

God wants to know itself and the human is the vehicle in which it can know itself. Through the human it can see Blue and realize that it is Blue. When this happens, it is not a person that it is happening to, persons/people are of the mind- the illusion. Humanity is one organism. It is the Being within this “person” that Sees- that Realizes, that Knows itself. And This Being- Is one Being in all. The same Being.

The separation is created by the desire to know yourself.


Where does this thought come from? It is the exact opposite of the truth. If this is believed, there is no hope. But that would be the purpose. The true desire to know yourself is God desiring to know itself. The longing for God is God longing for itself. “I was a hidden treasure that wanted to be known.”

Your call "O God!" is My call "I am here."
Your supplication is My message, dear,
And all your striving to come close to Me
Is but a sign that I draw you to Me.
Your loving quest and pain: signs of my grace!
In each "O God!" a hundred "Here's My Face!"

Rumi
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby headshaker » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:00 pm

I'm a tad amused that the Max himself checked out this thread, possibly to see if he was being labelled as he suspected he was. And true to form, there was the usual "talking down to the less enlightened" attitude mixed with genuinely helpful teaching. The statement I particularly latched onto described himself perfectly and yet also the rest of us too:
You can be at peace and in a state of awareness and observation, but not all the time....that would defeat the purpose, imo
I agree. Though Lee's response sounds persuasive, what I have experienced fits with Max's argument. As self-realized as I am, I am continually distracted from this awareness by events that trigger unwanted responses. Yet if these distractions did not exist, I would have no incentive to develop further - the dreamer having a good dream has no incentive to awaken.
This realization brings me peace and liberates me from being distressed at being distracted by discomfort - that discomfort only brings me greater awareness. Max himself is a microcosm of this principle - the very act of irritating me drives me to come to an understanding of it, and thereby more aware.
What I used to think was "me" I now view as a temporary perspective, one of an infinite number that add up to the Supreme Consciousness knowing itself.
I often think of the social insects like ants, bees, wasps and termites as a microcosm of this principle - an individual ant is not in reality a true being, but simply a unit in a superorganism - the colony, yet it's temporary individual perspective is utterly unique - no other ant will ever have its experience, before or after, and all these individual temporary perspectives are like thoughts that contribute to the total awareness of the colony.
I may experience many more profound insights within the span of this perspective. :meditate
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Lee » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:16 pm

Max- You can be at peace and in a state of awareness and observation, but not all the time....that would defeat the purpose, imo


I liked what you wrote Headshaker, but I really did not know nor still don’t know what Max meant by this. But if it means what you took it to me, then I understand it!

Still, it doesn’t make sense. “You can be at peace and in a state of awareness and observation- but not all the time- that would defeat the purpose. What Purpose? If you truly were at peace- “why not all the time?”

I would appreciate it if he would be more clear- or answer questions. :huh

As self-realized as I am, I am continually distracted from this awareness by events that trigger unwanted responses. Yet if these distractions did not exist, I would have no incentive to develop further - the dreamer having a good dream has no incentive to awaken.


Yes, I see what you mean by this.

This realization brings me peace and liberates me from being distressed at being distracted by discomfort - that discomfort only brings me greater awareness. Max himself is a microcosm of this principle - the very act of irritating me drives me to come to an understanding of it, and thereby more aware.


Is acceptance part of this “drives me to an understanding of it”?

What I used to think was "me" I now view as a temporary perspective, one of an infinite number that add up to the Supreme Consciousness knowing itself. I often think of the social insects like ants, bees, wasps and termites as a microcosm of this principle - an individual ant is not in reality a true being, but simply a unit in a superorganism - the colony, yet it's temporary individual perspective is utterly unique - no other ant will ever have its experience, before or after, and all these individual temporary perspectives are like thoughts that contribute to the total awareness of the colony.


Good example! :D

no other ant will ever have its experience, before or after,


Adorable! :dancing

I may experience many more profound insights within the span of this perspective.


No doubt ;)
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Max Power » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:27 am

headshaker wrote: What I used to think was "me" I now view as a temporary perspective, one of an infinite number that add up to the Supreme Consciousness knowing itself.


This is true, but don't get sucked into thinking it's a collective premise. While that POV has value, it only further distances you from yourself.

The greatest trick god ever pulled......was convincing god, god didn't exist.

You can substitute the word 'god' for source, love, freedom, buddha, consciousness, energy, light, etc, etc.

Max
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Dancer » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:33 pm

headshaker wrote:oh ok then, I think Max Power is the forum's awkward guy. I refuse to believe I'm the only one who thinks so. The guy could use a little more tolerance to people who aren't as enlightened as he thinks he is. :mad That said, he has his pearls of wisdom but as another contributor pointed out be nice to yourSelf and your Self will be nice to you. I have issues with the rude and condescending. The day I don't I will be enlightened indeed! :huh



I'm going to set the cat among the pigeons here. I have been on two other boards to do with 'awakening consciousness' with someone calling themselves Max Power, and that Max Power got banned from them both. I hope this isn't your Max Power. :rofl
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby SpiritFire » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:44 pm

As far as the self-realized thing goes, I have a friend (who has passed already) who had a web site. He was a professional psychic and would do "musings' from time to time.

One of the things he did post on his web site was this: (this is copy and pasted for accuracy)

Question: .How can I tell if I'm self realized?

Short answer: .If you have a 'self' you are not realized yet.

Expanded answer: ."Self Realized" is an oxymoron.
There is no self to be realized.

So as I understand it, the self is an illusion that breeds the feeling of seperateness. If it is an illusion then it doesn't really exist. To go around saying you are self-realized probably means that you are still holding on to some kind of self, because at this point it has been "realized". So you basically trade one for the other.

I could be wrong though.
Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Lee » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:11 am

Self Realization refers to realizing who you really are- the One Self, the Divine Self, and also known as the No Self. This is the formless one consciousness.

The other self is the small self, false self, personal self, mind-created self, illusionary self, separate self, ego. This cannot be realized.

It sleeps and dreams. It shows us who we are not.
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby SpiritFire » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:06 pm

Self Realization refers to realizing who you really are- the One Self, the Divine Self, and also known as the No Self. This is the formless one consciousness.


The other self is the small self, false self, personal self, mind-created self, illusionary self, separate self, ego. This cannot be realized.

It sleeps and dreams. It shows us who we are not.


I agree with all of this.

I agree because I have experienced both.

I don't go around telling everyone I'm self realized tho.

My words seem to mean little anyway. Plus there's the scripture about throwing pearls before swine. So I choose to "show" my self realization thru living it, to the best of my ability.
Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it
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Re: Every forum has an awkward one

Postby Odd-Arne » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:16 pm

Putting out harsh subjective "truths" has always been a method of teaching to not be used lightly, even if someone is actually asking for it.

It takes only a few minutes of web searching to find dozens very different subjective interpretations of very common well know spiritual concepts. Most a of them are valid too, from a certain viewpoint.

Now extremely deluded Interpretations of people's intentions are a different thing all together.

As people who look inward and seek to understand and respect things outside ourselves, a higher level of enlightenment isn't a black and white thing, it's nature is more of a conceptual perspective until even that materializes as a tangible mechanism of it's own. So called infinite and abstract ideas are not so strange, or frightening as they may be to some, for we move ourselves towards this greatness instead of cheapening it into something our minds can manipulate as our ego sees fit.

if we could have this attitude in our daily interactions with other people as well, it would just be complete joy for everyone all the time.
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