Max

[scarface]

In my spiritual and personal development quest, I have been through several gurus/teachers and checked out many more but didn't stick around.

It's not a quest.

Hi Max, nice to meet you.
I agree the spiritual is not a quest, but at the time when I was searching/looking around to find a guru to answer the questions I had. It at that time fealt like a quest, so therefore in my case it is the right word to use, because it felt like that.
Also, I didn't only meant to talk about teachers of spiritual things when I wrote it, But I also looked for teachers to teach/help me with the development of certain wordly skills.And the development of certain skills often is a quest and path of growth of the skill involved.

There is no book, no guru, no teaching required.

The ego longs for stuff to keep it company.

I agree it is not necesairely required to read a book, go to a guru or receive teaching. To realize the self it not necesairely required, nor can I find a logical reason why it should be required. I would never advice anyone to go seek a guru, BUT nor would I ever advise anyone to NOT look for a bonavide/sincere guru.

But the fact remains, as in my case that the meeting with a guru was part of the plan/script. I could not help but going to look for people to see what their answers were to my questions. And I could not help that the answers of this guru gave me great feeling and resonated well with me. So I could not help to coninue to listen to his guidance, and his concepts. It was part of my life plan as I see it, and now the time has been there for some months that I no longer need to listen to his teachings because I see it for myself. I can also imagine that if it was my life plan to not meet any guru, read no book and not receive any spritual info. That I would realize what I am without any of this.
Which one is better, receive no guidance/info or recieving guidance/info from books/guru/etc.? To me seems like an irrelevant question, it depends what your life plan is, neither is better nor worse imo.
Nevertheless there is a great sense of Love and appriciation left for my last guru.

Greetings from Scarface.

[Lee]

True subjective reality is only accessible to one singular conscious being, no human is conscious, including your own/my own avatar, so Max nor anyone else is conscious and/or awake.

Reality is the one, divine consciousness. This consciousness can become conscious of itself in the human. It can fully Realize itself in the human. This human then is conscious, awake and consciousness itself realized. No longer a person, but consciousness in human form awakened.

The truth is hidden for a reason.

What is this reason?
What of “I was a hidden treasure that wanted to be known.”
What if the Truth is not hidden at all, but very present- here and now?
What if the Truth is the Sky, and hidden only by clouds of the mind, the ego, the dream, the false?
What if the Truth is all there is, and seeming duality is for pointing to all that is? To realizing all that is. For if all there is- is- it needs a contrast to point it out.


The Pick-Axe
Some commentary on I was a hidden treasure, and I desired to be known: tear down this house. A hundred thousand new houses can be built from the transparent yellow carnelian buried beneath it, and the only way to get to that is to do the work of demolishing and then digging under the foundations.

With that value in hand all the new construction will be done without effort. And anyway, sooner or later this house will fall on its own. The jewel treasure will be uncovered, but it won't be yours then. The buried wealth is your pay for doing the demolition, the pick and shovel work.

If you wait and just let it happen, you'll bite your hand and say, "I didn't do as I knew I should have." This is a rented house. You don't own the deed. You have a lease, and you've set up a little shop, where you barely make a living sewing patches on torn clothing.

Yet only a few feet underneath are two veins, pure red and bright gold carnelian. Quick! Take the pick-axe and pry the foundation. You've got to quit this seamstress work. What does the patch-sewing mean you ask. Eating and drinking. The heavy cloak of the body is always getting torn. You patch it with food, and other restless ego-satisfactions. Rip up one board from the shop floor and look into the basement. You'll see two glints in the dirt.

Rumi

(Touching the Treasure)

God is Felt.

You're sitting here with us, but you're also out walking in a field at dawn. You are yourself the animal we hunt when you come with us on the hunt. You're in the body like a plant is solid in the ground, yet you're wind. You're the diver's clothes lying empty on the beach. You're the fish.

In the ocean are many bright strands and many dark strands like veins that are seen when a wing is lifted up. Your hidden self is blood in those, those veins that are lute strings that make ocean music, not the sad edge of surf, but the sound of no shore.


When I press my hand to my chest, it is your chest. And now you're scratching my head! Sometimes you put me in the herd with your other camels. Sometimes you place me at the front of the troops as the commander. Sometimes you wet me with your mouth like you do your seal-ring just before you plant your power. Sometimes you round me into a simple door-knocker.

You drive me away gently as a flute song does a dove from the eaves. With the same song you call me back. You push me out on many journeys; then you anchor me with no motion at all.

I am water. I am the thorn that catches someone's clothing. I don't care about marvelous sights! I only want to be in your presence. There's nothing to believe. Only when I quit believing in myself did I come into this beauty. I saw your blade and burned my shield! I flew on six hundred pairs of wings like Gabriel. But now that I'm here, what do I need wings for?

Day and night I guarded the pearl of my soul. Now in this ocean of pearling currents, I've lost track of which was mine. There is no way to describe you. Say the end of this so strongly that I will ride up over my own commotion.


Don't go anywhere without me. Let nothing happen in the sky apart from me, or on the ground, in this world or that world, without my being in its happening. Vision, see nothing I don't see. Language, say nothing. The way the night knows itself with the moon, be that with me. Be the rose nearest to the thorn that I am.

I want to feel myself in you when you taste food, in the arc of your mallet when you work, when you visit friends, when you go up on the roof by yourself at night. There's nothing worse than to walk out along the street without you. I don't know where I'm going. You're the road and the knower of roads, more than maps, more than love.

Rumi

[John A.]

If there are enlightened beings out there, what is wrong with the assumption that they are there for the sincere and dedicated seeker to find?

There is nothing wrong with that assumption.

You assume they exist and (of course) they do exist.

Therefore the seeker (you) will find them.

God, enlightenment, channelled beings, voices, etc......they are ALL there for you to find.

The seeker.......is always looking.

When you stop looking, what do you have?

Or do you have no faith that there are no enlightened beings out there and that if they are, that they are somehow unable to be discerned?

When you watch without self concern..............then you have no self concern.

God has no self concern.

Are you god or are you not.

Max

No kidding. . . REALLY?

You mean all I have to do is stop searching, do nothing, "look within," and be?

Hang on there, give me a sec.

Ok, not quite, let me do Max's oject-observation enlightment method.

There we go, I DID IT! I'm ENLIGHTENED! THANK YOU SO MUCH! I MADE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that was easy! I'm going to watch tv now. Thank you for the invaluable pointngs. I've NEVER EVER heard ANY of this before! Game over. My Journey is finally DONE!!!

Peace.

John (or consciousness inhabiting form called "John"). I am one, you're one, we're all one. Got its so EASY, why don't you guys get it?!!!!!!!!!


P.S.


Oh THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

And for the rest of you dum-dums. Did I mention, Just LOOK WITHIN YOU! YOU ARE THAT ALREADY!!

[Lee]

[Ariel]

heh, it's kinda funny seeing the different paths or steps, if you will, to enlightenment.

The Advaita peeps would say "There's nothing to do and no one to do anything. Just be still and allow the Self to realize itSelf."

Then you've got the Buddhists who would tell you that there is something you can do. "Follow the Eightfold Path and they will bring you to enlightenment."

Then you've got all these guys singing mantras, performing rituals, taking vows of celibacy, becoming ascetics, meditating on a mountain in india, receiving Deeksha from [insert-master-here]...

People have woken up following all of these traditions. People have woken up without ever following a single tradition. It's not like we can say "This one path is the way."

Many paths, one mountain.

It's so easy to get caught in the righteous "My way is the best/fastest/quickest/shiniest/most popular/particular-guru-approved way! Nah-nah-nah-nah-boo-boo!" silliness and use that reason to think that one path is inherently better than another. I mean come on... really guys!?

What if each person needs their own personal path that is most appropriate for them? hmmmm? and it never was a matter of better/worse/right/wrong...

Some paths may be faster than others, sure, but that doesn't mean it's any better. Some people prefer driving slower than others. Some people can only handle so much love and light at once before feeling overwhelmed and overloaded. They need to work their way up more slowly than others. It's all good.

Everyone in their own perfect way at their own perfect time. Truly.

[John A.]

Fuck a Duck . . I had a nice nifty post that the system ate. Fuck it. I'm too fed up to try and reconstitute it.

Anyway, I found something that rings pretty true I wanted to share.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/aziz2.html

We would like to express our concern regarding the recent phenomenon of 'satsang-culture' which in our opinion has impoverished seriously the Orignial Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals, who have very little or no knowledge at all about the Process of Awakening, feel qualified to give satsang and lead other souls on the Path. Enlightenment has become very cheap these days. Nobody actually really knows what is the meaning of this term as it virtually means everything and nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say 'I am Awakened' in order to give satsang.
Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has been much manipulated. Satsang has been Americanized. In an average satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and unauthentic joy, while the teacher tries to look like he or she is in a bliss. Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate. Why to meditate if we are already all Awakened?
But Is this really Advaita? Is Advaita a poor repetition of a several slogans like 'There is nobody there,' 'You are That,' You are already Awakened' or 'There is no Path', etc.? Has this anything to do with teaching of great masters like N. Maharaj or Sri Ramana Maharishi? Ramana sat in caves for 20 years before he could be really complete. In his presence disciples had to meditate for months and years before they could receive from him the glimpse of the Self.
It is true that New Millennium is a time of global awakening. But this awakening is mostly partial and relative to the level of most people's unconsciousness. It was Jesus who said that there would be a time when many false teachers will teach in the name of Light. It seems to be happening now. Many of these teachers are not necessarily 'bad people' but simply unqualified and lost, in truth. They have believed too quickly in the thought 'I am now ready to teach!'
It seems that the pauper-isation of satsang culture began after the death of Poonjaji. Many of his followers started to claim that Poonjaji approved their 'Awakening.' It seems that they just took him too literally. It is an Advaita custom to say 'you are already Awakened.' This is however more a teaching device than a reflection of reality. And even if some of his disciples had a glimpse of Awakening, Poonjaji knew very well that in most cases neither it was permanent nor the final state.


An example was Andrew Cohen who was sent to give satsang in the west. He was meant to represent Poonjaji and attract more westerners to Lucknow. But he and others thought that Poonjaji actually conformed his Enlightenment. For that reason, Cohen became very hurt when Poonjaji started to criticize him when he began to act as a master. From this wound came later the magazine 'What is Enlightenment?' which more represents Cohen's own insecurity and an unsuccessful attempt to heal himself than a genuine search for clarity. By the endless investigation into states of all possible masters, and not being able to come to any true conclusion, he has been just confusing his students. The only thing which at the end remains clear from his seemingly 'sincere' efforts to find clarity is that nobody has the least idea 'What Enlightenment Is!'

It is not our intention to suggest that nobody reaches Enlightenment. We just wish to make it clear (similar as to what is found to be said in ENLIGHTENMENT: CAN YOU DO IT?) that Complete Enlightenment and Understanding of its nature is still an extremely rare phenomenon on the planet earth, which a plane of low evolution. And equally important, we wish to emphasize that a partial or pre-mature experience of awakening does not qualify one at all to take a role of a Self-realised being.
Enlightenment is not as cheap. Many seekers seem to be unaware of a very simple fact that there are actually many levels of Self-realization as exemplified in the Eight Jhana States, the Wu Keng Chuan (Five Degrees of Tozan) and the Five Varieties of Zen. There is an enormous difference between initial Awakening such as say Kensho and the actual State of Enlightenment. But who cares? Most seekers would not bother to study these matters, for in their case there is really 'nobody there' just a collective seeker's mind. And most teachers would refuse to enquire into the true nature of Enlightenment because they already have a hidden doubt and deep fear concerning the validity of their own attainment.
We would like to suggest not to rush too fast with announcing oneself 'Awakened,' and to rush even less with the idea of giving satsang. In Zen tradition one had to wait 10 to 20 years after Enlightenment before one could guide others. These days we hear about individuals who give satsang the next day after their uncertain Awakening!
We would like to clarify, for the sake of general knowledge, that there are actually several levels of expansion beyond the mind. There are three basic types of Inner Expansion:

1) Awakening to Pure Awareness (the State of Presence behind the mind).
2) Awakening to the Absolute State (unity with the unmanifested).
3) Awakening of the Heart (expansion into the Divine).

In each of these levels there are three stages: Shift into a state, Stabilisation and Integration. For instance, many satsang-teachers do not experience the same state outside of teaching. This is because they are not established permanently in the state they have attained. For that reason, they can have a deep state during satasng, but when they leave the satsang-room, they return back to ordinary consciousness. In such a case only conscious cultivation of the particular state can allow one to establish it permanently. However, if one does not believe in actual process of Awakening, how can one consciously cultivate anything? One does not even know that one is in a State. Here we see the importance of correct understanding. If one just follows in a dogmatic and unimaginative way the Advaita idea that 'I am already That,' how can one cultivate anything?
We recommend to all students and teachers of Advaita to be more critical. Follow Advaita, if you wish but know that Reality is simply much more rich than any linear philosophy, with Advaita included. The Practical Advaita and the Theoretical Advaita are very different. In the Theoretical Advaita, the Self is the only reality, there is no Path and we are all already awakened. But Practical Advaita knows that there is a long way to go before the truth of these statements can become our living truth.
We would like also to create a few practical anti-pseudo-advaita statements: 'You are not Awakened unless you Awaken!' 'You are not That, unless you reach unity with Universal I AM!' 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!' 'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has dissolved! Until that time you are simply a suffering somebody who only tries to believe in being no one or entertains oneself by giving 'satsang.'
We have request to all those who experience any type of awakening: PLEASE, THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO GIVE SATSANG and HONESTLY COMTEMPLATE WHAT ARE YOUR TRUE MOTIVES BEHIND THE DESIRE TO TEACH. Perhaps giving Satsang is not really necessary?
Blessings to Seekers of Truth and Clarity who have the courage to renounce the False.

[Ariel]

Yeah, that's a great read. Thank you for reposting this John. I may even put this up on the blog as well.

The 3 stages discussed, as well as the shifting/stabilization/integration processes are key, and may sometimes be confused with one another.

[Lee]

First I read Ariel’s post. And as always it was right on target. (Is Ariel perfect or what???)

“Many paths, one mountain”- how true!

And even if some of the paths end mid-way up the mountain- that does not mean other paths won’t be found, maybe some backtracking, but there.

I’m not too sure about “Some people can only handle so much love and light at once before feeling overwhelmed and overloaded.” Maybe they ought to be pushed off the cliff!

But Ariel’s post rings true.

And I felt this was really the end of the thread until I see John A posted and started off with an expression I had not heard in many years. HAHA!!!!! I couldn’t stop laughing.

Good one John A!!!!

(Want to mention that I learned to write posts where I can save them- then if it gets lost I have a backup.)

As to the article-

THANK YOU JOHN A FOR POSTING THIS!!!!!

'You are not Awakened unless you Awaken!' 'You are not That, unless you reach unity with Universal I AM!' 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!' 'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has dissolved!



You made my day!

[Max Power]

You can write ten thousand words.

You can quote chapter and verse.

When you are alone in the dark.

Who is there?

There is only one thing that knows it is there.

Know it.

There is nothing else truly here.

Max

[Lee]

I agree with this, Max, it is true.
But you simply must stop being alone in the dark!
God is in the sunshine with life forms too.