Are we actually getting anywhere?

[Ariel]

Lots of great points Jonatan.

I don't have time to fully respond quite yet, but I just had an "aha" moment.

When we're talking about thoughts, generally we're talking about "the little voice in our head." This is not to be confused with the entirety of the mind itself and the ability to differentiate between a this and and a that.

The voice in your head can only really think one thought at a time. For example, the voice in your head can be thinking "potato potato potato potato" and yet the body can continue to walk, wave its hands in the air, and interact with the world.

So just because the voice in the head may or may not be talking about the actions the body is currently taking, that doesn't mean that the rest of the body/mind thing loses its ability to function in the world.

In a sense, "the mind" was being confused with "the voice in my head" and "the voice in my head" was being given too much credit for the ability of this body/mind to interact with many different objects in this world.

[Lee]

Everything Ariel said.


“Thought is the effect of inaction. When one chooses not to act, thought follows.”

How does this hold hands with Being Still?

Being still quiets the mind, quiets thoughts, and stillness emerges from within.

Felt oneness with Being happens.

As I understand it, you had suffered and had found a remedy for this suffering. And if it works, okay. And yet, there is a defensiveness in you, as I perceive it, as if you have to defend your “salvation”- or else.

It seems as if you are attempting to educate or help others with what you have found, but it comes across as a form of attack, or defense.

You have mentioned “no flinching” more than once, “no flinching in the face of God.” And yet, there seems to be an underlying fear, as if to flinch would be death.

"Thoughts kill the human being." You do realize, that even if you don't think, human beings die.

Egos fear Death. And they do many things to distance themselves from the inevitable. Even attaching themselves to an idea where one has no thoughts- that "no thought" becomes God. In this way one does not have to flinch before God as one is no where near God.

Perhaps at the core of your message is fear, rather than no thought.

For one who advocates no thought- at all- your posts reveal a fair amount of thinking.

And your attempts at communicating your message is lacking. It’s as if you are in your own world perceiving other posts in an incongruous and inaccurate way, and then responding to them with faulty perception.

If your written words thus far are any indication of the advantages to no thought, I’d say you lost the case.

What is at the heart of it, Jonatan? What are you really trying to say, to convey, to share?

[Jonatan]

Lee, please fuck the hell off. I'm not interested in your projections and theories.

Your problem is that you're not actually interested in what is being put forward here. Just leave the thread alone.

[Ariel]

I thought Lee's response was pretty bang on. As was Jonatan's response to mine as it struck a nerve, and for this I am grateful.

and yet there's this arguing going on. Come on guys, step back a minute. If there's tempers flaring up, the truth is being obscured by the ego. We're not seeing clearly.

The level of truthiness of what we say may not be at 100% yet, and that's really okay. Let's see how low we can keep the distortion, allowing ourselves to be where we are and simultaneously allowing others to be right where they are.

[Jonatan]

You can theorize about me all you want in your own thread, I'm not interested.

Only way to meet the challenges of life is to gather sufficient energy and power to face life as it is. This is impossible if one constantly wastes energy on superficial bullshit. I'm here with a very clear purpose in mind, I have a message to get through to anyone who is actually interested in it. I will engage 100% with anyone who is earnestly asking questions.

Take it or leave it.

[Parthon]

What's your message Jon?

[Lee]

Jonatan- “Lee, please fuck the hell off. I'm not interested in your projections and theories.”

You’re too easy. (Nice manners with the “please”)

”Your problem is that you're not actually interested in what is being put forward here. Just leave the thread alone.”

Thank you for stating what my problem is- however, I have no problem with you, or with what you are saying.

You are right in that I am not actually interested. But if I were not interested at all I wouldn’t post. I find You interesting- as your words and your message- what I can understand of it- are a dichotomy.

And it is the mind that is most always what is interested in things. Thoughts are interested in thoughts and in the idea of no thoughts evermore.

What can I say, egoically- you’re rather entertaining- an indulgence.

You amuse me. And I like your spunk.

And I am open to receiving your message, I ask for clarification.

As far as leaving the thread alone- I can only “assume” that you have an army with you.

I do suggest that you lighten up. It isn’t That serious, dude.


Ariel- “and yet there's this arguing going on. Come on guys, step back a minute. If there's tempers flaring up, the truth is being obscured by the ego. We're not seeing clearly.”

As so often, Ariel is spot on. However there is no temper flaring up in me. Whatever I have written in this thread, even on the site, I had no temper. I am not even arguing. I am just addressing what I see. If it is contraire to another’s opinion, that is what it is. I know what arguing is. I am married.

Sometimes it is fun to wrestle.

Ariel- "The level of truthiness of what we say may not be at 100% yet, and that's really okay. Let's see how low we can keep the distortion, allowing ourselves to be where we are and simultaneously allowing others to be right where they are."

Agreed! But that does not mean we can’t disagree. Did you hear that Jonatan? If someone disagrees with you, that’s alright.

Jonatan- “You can theorize about me all you want in your own thread, I'm not interested.”

Uh- Jonatan- this is Ariel’s Forum!
You are something else. You don’t own this thread simply because you started it. This is not Your thread. If you want to be possessive about your thread, create a blog on line.

And if it is your thread- then look at it. Reread it. You would be the captain of this bumpy ride.

Jonatan- ”Only way to meet the challenges of life is to gather sufficient energy and power to face life as it is.”

Meeting the challenges of life does not require gathering sufficient energy and power to face life as it is. It requires Allowing Life to be as it is in this moment. Allowing and Accepting what is Now.

“This is impossible if one constantly wastes energy on superficial bullshit. I'm here with a very clear purpose in mind, I have a message to get through to anyone who is actually interested in it. I will engage 100% with anyone who is earnestly asking questions.”

What we want to know is what is this very clear purpose- in mind. What is this message you want to get through? Bingo! Maybe this Is It. Those words are it. THAT YOU HAVE A MESSAGE TO GET THROUGH- Well, get through it then. The message itself may be standing in your way- which has been pointed at before.

Jonatan- ”Take it or leave it.”

What a jerk. (yeah I said it)

But hey, I like jerks!

[Jonatan]

I may be a jerk, but you are a clown.

[Lee]

[Jonatan]

So just because the voice in the head may or may not be talking about the actions the body is currently taking, that doesn't mean that the rest of the body/mind thing loses its ability to function in the world.

In a sense, "the mind" was being confused with "the voice in my head" and "the voice in my head" was being given too much credit for the ability of this body/mind to interact with many different objects in this world

Yes, and to make it clear... The one observing all of this is yet another "voice in the head".

Basically there is intelligence, which can act through the human body. Thought assumes that it IS this intelligence when in fact it is in only when thought is absent intelligence is capable of acting through us.

We are fully capable of living without 99% of the thoughts we have, yet we don't, and enormous amounts of energy is wasted in endless thought-loops which serve no other purpose than to avoid action.

Any movement into thought becomes a movement away from action. The problem with thoughts is that they don't transform our lives, only action does. Thoughts remain as concepts which become useless when faced with a real challenge.

Intelligence is energy, if we are willing to face the consequences of the direction which the energy is moving in, we let it turn into action. If we are not, we pour it into a mental thought process.