Can Both Sides of an Argument Be Totally Right?

Category Ego, Enlightenment, Non-duality

Our minds are built in such a way that if our beliefs have valid supporting evidence, they must certainly be true. After all, we have proof! All other beliefs must therefore be wrong. Sounds pretty straightforward, right?

Let’s look at something as simple as the belief that 1+1=2.

It’s not absolutely true. It’s just an agreed upon concept.

What if we decided that 1+1=1? For example, you take one piece of clay, smush it together with another piece of clay, and you end up with just one piece of clay.

Or what if we decided that 1+1=11? Just stick the two numbers next to each other and call it a day. The Romans did something similar with their numerals.

In binary, the language used by computers, 1+1=10.

1 man + 1 woman = 2, 3, 4, 5, or even more people.

1 man + 1 woman = 1 person… if the relationship is really bad and one kills the other or jumps off a bridge.

Or what if 1 + 1 = Window? Visualize it. The 1′s form the sides, the + is the crossbar in the middle, and the = forms the top and the bottom.

Silly examples, certainly, but they show the point:

Our beliefs are not absolutely true. They are only true because we agree that they’re true.

Let’s take this a step further. Here’s how to really demonstrate this for yourself.

The “Arguing Both Sides” Method

Pick a belief you hold to be true.

Write down all the reasons, proofs, arguments, and evidence as to why you believe this is true.

Next pretend that you believe the opposite is true.

Now write down all the reasons, proofs, arguments, and evidence as to why you believe this opposing belief is true.

Go ahead and do this now with multiple beliefs.

The human mind can find evidence to support ANY belief.

It is designed this way to allow us to experience any reality we choose. There’s nothing wrong with this design. The problem is that then then begin to see the world in black and white, believing that since their belief has “valid” supporting evidence, all other beliefs must therefore automatically be invalid and false.

“I’m right. If you don’t agree with me then you’re automatically wrong.”

Evidence is not the primary reason we adopt beliefs.

Motivation is the reason we adopt beliefs.

Motivation may come in the form of parents telling us the way things are, teachers explaining things to us, messages we’re given through the media, or even our own choice to see things in a certain way that makes “us” (or more accurately, the ego we have) feel better.

ie. “Sally did XYZ because she’s a mean person. I’m better than Sally!”

Once a belief is chosen, confirming evidence can always be found.

So if both sides of the argument can come up with “proof” to back up their claims, can a dualistic argument ever be won?

Continued Discussion | 1 Forum Comment

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16 Responses to “Can Both Sides of an Argument Be Totally Right?”

TJones said:

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Each time I try to write a comment, I immediately see the opposite of what I’m going to say. So I can’t say anything.

This is just making me anxious, not peaceful.
TJones said:

I just reached Self-actualization(!!), if that’s the right word for it. So nevermind about the previous comment.
Ismaelia said:

T Jones said, “I just reached self-actualization…”I find myself contradicting my thoughts alot.One thought arises then I find myself countering with the opposite. At first I resisted which caused confusion but then after listening to Gangaji about inclusion rather than exclusion I just started going with it.Now I use the word “and” rather than “or” a lot more. Interestingly enough I don’t find myself confused by it anymore either. It’s all just words, just concepts. Not who I am. Now I see more and more possibilities allowing them to rise and fall into my awareness without the need to act or react to them or then again I may. :-)What was/is your experience of self realization I wonder. Feel like sharing?

TJones Reply:
December 24th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Yeah. It was realizing my true nature of Awareness, and complete disidentification from the ego. (Though it’s still there.) I stopped “searching” and realized I never had to search for anything again. I just am; I can just be. Intellectual searching is pointless, because ALL beliefs can be intellectually true, and Awareness searching is pointless, because I’m here, and I know it.

But now I’m still having trouble identifying with thought again, but at least now I know the difference, and what I really am and what I’m not. What helped most was for every belief or thought that arose, to immediately think the opposite thought. They would cancel out each other and all I would be left with was Awareness.

I’m also practicing “The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss” so I will stop confusing myself with the ego.

Ariel Bravy Reply:
December 24th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Awesome, Awesome, Awesome.
TJones said:

I just reached enlightenment. I’m not sure if this is only temporary or not, but the quote “The mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions” seems to be true.
The most I can say is, “everything is processes.”
Davidya said:

TJones: Just be careful of your concepts. Enlightenment has nothing to with any idea of it. It is not the mind that wakes up, although it is certainly changed by it.

One can awaken to source and see there is source and myself, separate. Some call this jiva or soul awakening.

Deeper, one switches from being a person experiencing Self to Self experiencing a person. That is first awakening. Sometimes, asking yourself the question “where am I?” can illuminate it.

It’s not uncommon for mind to arise again after the switch but once the switch is made, its permanent. At a certain point, the mind simply lets go. It will be clearer with time if it’s not obvious right away.

But this is not the goal, if we can call it that. You want to go well past simple awakening. You want to awaken everything.

Davidyas last blog post..What is Unique?

TJones Reply:
January 11th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Davidya, yeah you’re right. I was still getting confused with concepts and identifying with parts of the mind. I’ve since had a second, deeper self-awakening, where I realized I am an infinite, intelligent void. This was a more fundamental awakening than any concepts of “enlightenment” or any universe for it to happen in.
Ismaelia said:

Today instead of my usual meditation I simply stopped my thoughts, for one brief moment, and then again and then again. I did not experience bliss or even joy. Things did not seem perfect to me. It just was and still is. At one point I suddenly realized that the silent awareness was now in the foreground and the thoughts entering the mind had receded to the background.That dreamy surreal state appeared and as I released clinging to it and the desire to keep it it grew stronger. Everything seemed less real than before and somehow closer. I was not the refrigerator but I wasn’t entirely separate from it either. As I write this now I realize a certain anxiety creeping up like “Will I get this right?” but it isn’t me that is anxious so I allow it and now it is receding.
There is no real state of mind here other than calmness which gets interrupted with thoughts so then I stop again. This is nothing like I expected it to be. It’s really nothing at all.
Interestingly enough this occurred after an entire afternoon of ego fighting with itself. Ha!
Thank you, Gangaji. Thank you, Ariel! and thank you TJones! :-))))
TJones said:

Hey guys. It wasn’t permanent. It lasted for several hours, I went to sleep, and woke up still enlightened. But then I was aware this place of energy in the body, and being curious, I felt inclined to inspect it closely, and by then it was too late…I could feel consciousness being shifted completely back into the body as a separate self. I have no clue what that was.

But as far as the actual experience, I was Infinite/Bliss/Background-of-Awareness. The body felt very empty, like it was missing some fundamental aspect. There was absolutely no resistance and no facial expression, except for the Bliss that shone through. Looking in the mirror, the face looked radically different, so loving and present. It was a MAJOR shift of consciousness. But this wasn’t “the end” as I knew there was still more developing to do.

As far as getting there, I was meditating, being aware of Awareness being, and noticing anything else in addition to Awareness. I was knocking away the “extras” to Awareness by the cancellation method. (Ex: If I feel locked in “ego mode” I notice this isn’t the same ego that was in 5th grade, and they cancel out and fall away, leaving Awareness, plus whatever else needs to be canceled out.) I just kept doing that with anything “extra” to Awareness.

I realized the body was a process, inseparable from the rest of the world. Same with thinking. And with feelings. Body process, thinking process, and feeling process weren’t all bundled up into one package as a self, but were just there happening, along with lots of other processes. I realized thinking has no source, just like the headboard of my bed has no source…it’s just there. That final realization – that thought doesn’t even have a source but is just there like my headboard – is what did it for me.

I’ve spent all day trying to make this happen again, but to no avail. I’m still on Chapter 2 of “The Most Rapid and Direct Means to Eternal Bliss.” Right now I am not fully identified with Self/Awareness, but I recognize its timeless presence always with me, something I wasn’t experiencing before.

I hope I’m not commenting too much.
I’m going to keep trying non-stop until I get there again. I don’t care about anything else now.
Ismaelia said:

STOP TRYING. Awareness has no need to try. Ego tries. Allow yourself to just be. Remember? No searching anymore. There is no need to try, search, think, imagine or anything else. Just stop your thoughts completely. You don’t even have to change them or analyze them or respond to them at all. JUST STOP and be still without the need or expectation of any feeling or any experience. When thoughts come back just stop again. That’s all you have to do because it is your thoughts that prevent you from realizing your true nature.Any thought even one used to cancel out the previous one is still a thought.
Also I realized there is no reaching or getting to. I can’t reach or get to something that I already am.
Just let go of all thought. Awarenss has no need to recognize itself. It already does. It is the Ego that WANTS to recognize.
TJones said:

Ismaelia, that’s helpful advice. Thanks.
Ariel Bravy said:

TJones: Cool. A non-abiding awakening. Just another experience that arises within awareness.

Does it feel now that there is a “me” who had that experience?

TJones Reply:
December 28th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Yes. The “me” that had the experience isn’t the thinking me, but a presence.
If I understand correctly, as Davidya put it, I was Self experiencing a person. But now I am a person experiencing Self. Kinda reverse order.
Ismaelia said:

a non-abiding awakening-that’s beautiful.
Davidya said:

Great experiences, everyone. Thanks for sharing.
I would agree with Ismaelia’s advice to STOP TRYING. Awakening is about allowing or surrender, not doing. However, it’s not necessarily about not thinking. Thoughts may stop as a result, but they may not. More, what changes is our relationship with the thoughts – with who is apparently thinking. Whats more amazing is when you are the silence even when there is thoughts and impulses that arise. When nothing overshadows it. Eventually, it overshadows everything.

I would also add that we may wish to see these experiences as milestones, but don’t get the impression “this is it”. As Ismaelia well observed “This is nothing like I expected it to be.” Thats a very good sign – it is never what we expect as expectations are mind. Mind will automatically make the experience a memory and create concepts. Thats fine – its doing it’s job. But these are not it and if you hold to them as examples of it, that can be a barrier to being.

No experience is permanent but true being is. TJones, you may be experiencing a sort of duality where you seem to be a person but also a presence that contains the person. That’s very good. Presence will get more dominant until it finally “switches”. But enlightenment is much more than this. First step is awakening to the illusion of the individual. Then to the illusion of the world. Then to the whole thing. And then to the illusion of the illusion. (laughs) This is the dawning of Oneness, the unity of all things. With that there is no longer an experiencer, so no experiences.

Don’t be in a rush to say “I am enlightened”. This is a meaningless concept as no I is ever enlightened. No I can achieve it as no I even exists.

The anxiety Ismaelia observed can come up – this may be some purging triggered by purity. It can also be a very clear experience of the deeper mechanics of the ego and its previously sub-conscious identity. The key is to just see it as part of the process or environment. Once seen, it will pass.

Just have fun with it and don’t take it all too seriously. That spoils the fun and you may miss the cosmic jokes. ;-)